What does it take to create real, lasting change for families in poverty?

In Part 2 of the SPN Neighbors in the Network conversation with Nic Dunn, Vice President of Strategy and Senior Fellow at the Sutherland Institute, Nic explores the deeper purpose behind welfare reform. In this episode, Nic shares why earned success, work-based self-reliance, and moral clarity must be at the center of any serious attempt to help families move from instability to opportunity.

While Part 1 examined the data and consequences of benefits cliffs, this episode goes further—into the stories, philosophy, and firsthand experiences that drive Nic’s work. From his conversations with Utahns facing poverty to lessons drawn from his time as a speechwriter for the governor, Nic makes a compelling case that policy is most powerful when it listens first—and empowers second.

Listen to Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJWrXRLoRw

Watch the full conversation below!